That's useful.
I like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaugefechtsstand_Wien http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.roland-harder.de%2Frelikte_drittes_reich%2Fgaubefehlsstand-wien.html&sl=de&tl=en&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
Title the game Schirach-Bunker or Gaugefechtsstand Wien
It was attacked by the Red Army so that is spot on and covers communications (I'm thinking of a comms network here - get that switchboard sorted Jay!) and we can make use of those Cold War plotting map boards, 'secret weapons', loot, even a commander's residence.
If we can find some metal cylinders amongst the debris we could nab those and use them as 'bomb/aircraft/weapon parts' to be conveyed from location to location in the tunnel complex. Rig up a few cheap sack trolleys to make transport carts.
I think this definitely needs to be played from either end - the vast scale of the site being the feature of the game rather than intimacy, which was the feature of UCAP. Germans start from the big doors at the caravan end and use vehicles, Ruskis start at the car park end.
How to build tension? Push the 'non-firing' recce concept further than we ever have done before. Worked at Eagle, Churchills, Ariel, Husky. Germans start game fully ensconced in the complex and have a long list of specific work duties to perform. Guarding, policing, fielding and routing phone calls, plotting troop movements/enemy actions, moving weapons/loot/vehicles. A full workload. Apart from guards Germans wouldn't be armed - weapons being held in the armoury which needs authority to be accessed. Germans will be bricking it - this concept worked very well at Eagle where Americans were unarmed and the tension was palpable!
Clearly the Germans know they will be attacked, its an airsoft game after all, but when and where from?
Ruskis on the other hand will start off with a more sneaky-beaky role. Entering the complex, avoiding patrols, working out what is where before formulating a plan (pre-conceived) to attack - where and when? Should someone be spotted then Germans are ordered to investigate - small unit sent, the facility must carry on functioning. I'm pretty sure we can keep this up for half a day since we aren't on top of each other like at UCAP. Then as level of infiltration becomes more apparent more Germans are released for combat so we eventually end up with a full scale battle. Through all this German kit needs to be protected or removed to a safer location. Much to-ing and fro-ing. This will force an orderly battle and a disciplined game rather than full scale blatting at anything and anywhere.
The major problem is getting lost and I think this can be easily solved by a sign at each corner so instructions can easily be made ' Take this part to the store between A6 and A7' or 'place sentry on C3' or 'man the telephone at D2'. Or indeed Ruskis reporting back 'sentry spotted at location D4' or armoured vehicles spotted at A6'.
I like the idea of Berlin, but would like to get the Germans on the attack somehow.
Ebensee, and other concentration/labour camps are a bit dodgy to build an event around aren't they?
S
I think all tunnel complexes would have been built with forced labour. As long as it doesn't feature in a game that's fine by me.
Hard to think of a tunnel complex that wouldn't be occupied by Germans and attacked by Ruskies though. Maybe as Germans are killed they make their way out of the complex thus leaving the tunnels with Russians in occupancy. Germans will then be in a position for a massed assault to re-occupy?
I think it's a good idea to have the bulk of the Germans unarmed early on. However, given the sheer size of the site, plus the possibility of getting lost trying to find the "armoury", might it be an idea to allow them to carry sidearms? They'll still be bricking it!
The fact that a large amount of the site is unlit will allow a lot of sneaking about for the Russians and give them a chance to do recce and avoid contact until they form a plan of attack.
If we have a commandants office and a radio room, they can be filled with props like code books, enigma machine, switchboard, etc as well but such areas (like map rooms) will need to be protected.
Also, I personally think that, since we won't be affected by the weather/poor light, that we should aim to start as early as practicable and finish as late as possible. We'll be leaving massive potential untapped if we start at 1000hrs, pause for lunch and finish at 1600hrs. Is it time to tell players to carry their own food and eat as and when needed, rather than set a meal time?
When I want your opinion - I'll tell you what it is!
I think all tunnel complexes would have been built with forced labour. As long as it doesn't feature in a game that's fine by me.
Hard to think of a tunnel complex that wouldn't be occupied by Germans and attacked by Ruskies though. Maybe as Germans are killed they make their way out of the complex thus leaving the tunnels with Russians in occupancy. Germans will then be in a position for a massed assault to re-occupy?
Agreed, but to set it at the site of an actual camp is open to criticism.
@ Stephen - The concentration camp was adjacent, not part of the tunnels. For all I know many such projects had concentration/forced labour camps nearby - its just that Google happened to mention this!
@ Pete - yes, definitely a site for NOT stopping the game for lunch. Hell, the Germans even have a canteen to visit where they can store their snap, grab a cup of tea. Ruskie can eat on the fly, just like they would have done. Maybe we can organise a delivery of soup and bread for the Russians at their start point.
Re. game times. Tricky one. An early start may be do-able (if you can get the drunkards up!) but it creates difficulty for those turning up on the day. Likewise a later endex is fine but for those desparate to get away as they are travelling long distances. But my over-riding feeling is that a good six hours graft down there may not maximise use of time but it will be hard graft and players should feel they have got their money's worth. And beside which its fecking hard graft for us organisers maintaining a good game ebb and flow for that time. That is where PBI a dead right to run short games - soooo much easier to run!
Ebensee was a well known concentration camp. It'd be like setting the game at Dachau. That's my point.
BTW, in the past our Saturday events have always been easier for people to attend. Drive down on the Friday, recover on the Sunday. Sunday events means more time for social on the Saturday, and thus extreme hangovers.....
Regarding Pete's suggestion of a late end-ex. If we could offer overnighting on the Saturday too it means they have the option to stay if they wish and won't have to rush home. They'll have to take it easy if they intend to drive early the next day.
Possible - although frankly there is now way I would stop to supervise others on the second night, I'll be off and away!
Further thoughts - medics. The rule of shot once and be medic'd, shot twice and you are out works well as a dynamic. How about pushing this a tad further - those that are hit a second time must be removed by a medic team. I'm not suggesting stretchers (H&S risk) but a team of two carrying a medic flag who come and 'pick up' a fallen soldier. These don't have to be permanent medic roles, they can be any one, but must be carrying a flag (much more visible at long distance than an armband, and easier to transfer). Flag carrying medics can't be shot. Not only does this mean players must THINK about their actions but it also poses a further task for commanders/players - keeping a usable working force in play and allowing lulls in action to recover dead/injured. Bit of role play here too, calling for medics etc.
Germans will have a permanent hospital/medical room (as they would have done), Ruskie have to establish their own where deemed suitable.
We're going to have to think about how the teams are deployed. I think it's vital to keep people together through strong leadership and discourage glory missions and individual sneakiness (a la Webby).
That'll work well with the medic rules posted above too.
One of my concerns is that the game will break down into a free for all with people in tiny groups all over the site with no way of re-grouping them.
If they're given specific missions, such as go to point "x" and report back what you find, that will minimise freelancing, as running about looking for a fight will achieve nothing. As you say Steve, strong leadership will play a big part. Should give some good roleplaying oppurtunities as well, the "fanatical commisar", etc.
In the build up to the game, the point about obeying orders can be rammed home as well. The Germans and the Russians were both well known for their attitude to not obeying orders. 
When I want your opinion - I'll tell you what it is!
Yes, once people are out there and fragmented then command and control will collapse. Perhaps timed actions would help - 'scout sector A2 to A8 and report back by no later than 1100hrs, regardless of consequences'.
In the afternoon at Wotan 2 I sent out small groups to search particular areas and report back rather than 'run like billy-oh and see if you can find it' like Jerry did ('cos I knew at Wotan 1 Guy was cross we belted for an objective. Stupid me for being considerate this time... 
). Anyhoo, the point of this paragraph was to say NOT ONE team reported back! 
The Jerries reported back to me! And they were taking it slow, but got around a good part of the site unimpeded, christ, they even made it to your safe zone! 
At Autumn Mist the US troops were really good at seeking info and reporting back, but they didn't like it. They were giving me loads of shit for telling them not to engage the enemy. Despite that priority order, a group of them still crossed the river and chased after a load of Germans!
Hehe, to be fair they didn't come back 'cos you had filled the tunnels and blocked progress and they were either dead or stuck at a corner!
I think we can safely say it will be VERY hard to block or bottle neck at Drakelow - way too big.
Brits were spot on at Ariel - only one bit on ill-discipline. I berated Scaley for chasing after Gadge when he was captured when he had nor authority to do so.
I'm pretty certain chaps will do well discipline-wise - they know the score now. Its not so much the players as the physical scale/getting lost/making up their own game once isolated that poses the biggest challenge.
How about written orders?
How about written orders?
Given on the day, right? No-one ever reads the briefs we give pre-game.
On the day is better. If there are consequences for disobedience (or failure), it will keep players focussed. How about the danger of being (metaphorically) shot by your commander (and have to sit out for 20 minutes) for failure to carry out orders?
When I want your opinion - I'll tell you what it is!
Haha, nice. Additional incentive is being shot in the back for NOT moving forward!
A pre-prepared 'plan' (I fear, unlike unscripted Ariel, this will have to be 'controlled' to a degree) but also orders on the fly.
I suspect the Russians weren't hot on the old paperwork but Jerry certainly was! Still, no reason why the commissar can't send out a runner with new orders to an advance group to change game flow...
Haha, nice. Additional incentive is being shot in the back for NOT moving forward!
Nice. It must have sucked to be a Russian!
I think good signage is an absolute must to assist runners (as well as patrols, sentries,medics, commanders, etc), otherwise we'll be faced with people getting lost, regardless of whether they stick to their orders or not. We really could do with a copy of a site map and decide where to place some signs (maybe even some luminous ones for the dark bits).
When I want your opinion - I'll tell you what it is!
Did some more digging on the Ostwall:
http://www.iol.ie/~corkbatgroup/Nietoperek.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mi%C4%99dzyrzecz_Fortified_Region
http://www.holidayapartmentpoland.com/underground_bunkers_poland.htm - Very good potted history!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vistula%E2%80%93Oder_Offensive - Part of this offensive.
Had a bit of an idea about gameplay as well. Given the HUGE numerical advantage that the Ruskies had, could we play around with regen/medic band rule a bit for the morning to give the commies an advantage? Make the Germans really feel they are being attacked by wave upon wave of Russians. Given the sheer size of the site, it doesn't matter if the Germans get pushed back a fair bit. As that's when the Local Counterattack by the Germans in the afternoon will help to even the odds a bit...
Ooooh. The Molotov Line - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov_Line / http://ginklai.net/tunelis/fortification/molotov/index.en.html- Early(ish) war again, but certainly a big change from the whole German Bunker thing we've done a few times already.
Then there is the Stalin Line as well, precursor to the Molotov line and near as dammit abandoned by the Ruskies after they invaded Poland http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalin_Line
When we were a Kingdom it was run by a King
When we were an Empire it was run by an Empress
Now we're a country we're run by a..........
...the system of tunnels of the Sector "Wysoka" in the Miedzyrzecz Fortified Front. In mid 1943, the Daimler production line for aircraft engines was moved there ... close to the entrance, large factory halls were built, where the engines were assembled.
Besides the aircraft engine factory, a part of the "Wysoka" tunnel system was used as storage space. For instance Airforce uniforms for Luftwaffe women were among the items stored there. In four chambers (according to J. Miniewicz) archives and works of art were deposited. In 1944, among others, exhibits from the museum in Poznan were placed there, as well as archives from Królewiec. Archives of the General Staff are also listed as being stored there. The works of art were later found by the Russians, but – apparently – not the archives...
On January 12th 1945, the eastern front moved from the Vistula River. As a result of the powerful attack of the Soviet army, after 15 days the troops of the Red Army arrived in front of the screening position of the Miedzyrzecz Fortified Front, near Trzciel. The first to break through, on the night of 28/29 January was 44 Guards Armoured Brigade, forming a part of 11 Guards Armoured Corps, a select unit of 1 Tank Army of General M. Katukow. On January 29th, 11 Guards Armoured Corps, after crossing the Obra River, continued to march west and in the evening arrived in front of the main fortification line of the Central Sector "Wysoka"; 44 Guards Armoured Brigade and 1454 Armoured Artillery Regiment - near Kalawa; 45 Guards Armoured Brigade - near Nietoperek, and 40 Guards Armoured Brigade and 27 Guards Motor Brigade - near Klszyca.
So, aircraft engines, storage, art, archives. And attacked at end of January as part of the Vistula–Oder Offensive. Seems appropriate!
The Molotov Line, as you say Jay, would switch the Russians to be defensive and the Germans attacking - the problem is that these seem to be bunker/fort/casemate type defences, not something that screams factory/storage. Ditto Stalin Line.
I was just randomly Googling stuff whilst under-the-influence, so posted up whatever I found!
Gotta say, Wysoka does fit the bill pretty much damn near perfectly!
When we were a Kingdom it was run by a King
When we were an Empire it was run by an Empress
Now we're a country we're run by a..........
